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Emergency Brake
08-22-2008, 3:47 PM
I realize that the systems are different from the Fox to the SN-95, but hopefully you guys could shed some light or at least an opinion on it. My SN-95 doesn't have a way to adjust the parking brake tension. At speed it's essentially rendered useless. Apparently on a lot of the cars there is a nut on the base of the handle on which I can tighten the cable, but my car lacks this. This is what I'm looking at:
There is no way to adjust the car from underneath either. I'm not too happy about having to do my first event on clutch kicking alone. Is there an adjustment point that I'm missing? Or alternatively is there some sort of fabrication or part that I can use to adjust the tension? Any help is appreciated.
I always thought the adjuster was underneath the car, above the driveshaft, but I have never been under an SN95, so I am not sure of that.
Maybe someone else on here can help?
I'm not to familiar with SN95's but I don't think they have a rear drum brake so this is more for the Fox bodies that want to know how to adjust theirs. Please note, this adjustment is made under the vehicle like Geoffrey said. I was looking at the parking brake in the vehicle for probably an hour before I finally went to the AutoZone and got the damn book. LOL. I'm no mechanic but armed with my trusty Haynes Repair Manuel I can do just about anything. LOL.
HAYNES REPAIR MANUEL
Chapter 9 (Brakes) Page 9-14
Section 12 Parking Brake Adjustment
Models with rear drum brakes
1: Block the front wheels so the vehicle can't roll in either direction.
2: Jack up the rear of the vehicle and support the axle securely on jackstands. DO NOT get under a vehicle that is supported only by a jack!
3: Release the parking brake and place the transmission in Neutral.
4: On early models (1979-1986), loosen the equalizer locknut. Slowly tighten the adjusting nut on the equalizer rod until the rear brakes just begin to drag.
5: On later models (1987-1993), tighten the adjusting nut against the cable equalizer until the rear brakes just begin to drag.
6: Loosen the equalizer adjusting nut just enough so the rear wheels turn freely, then secure the adjusting nut with the locknut.
7: Remove the jackstands and lower the vehicle. Unblock the front wheels and test the parking brake.
MUSTANG BLOG
MY PERSONAL PROFILE & BLOG
You're right, the SN-95 has a hydrolically controlled parking brake. I've put the vehicle up on a hoist at work and the cable has no equalizer nut. I'll see if anyone else on a different forum has had to do this, albeit it's not a problem that most drivers have an issue with.
This girl I was dating has a 2000 V6 and she let me take it out to an event at Summit Point, WV. Those SN95's have so many things that make them difficult to drift right out of the box. Not only did it have the same problem as yours with the parking brake not locking the wheels but it has a terrible weight balance. The front plows through turns giving it so much understeer. I saw on the website that Geoffrey put a link up to that changing the rear sway bar thickness would help but you have your work cut out for you. LOL. Here is the link again. I can't remember which post I found it on. http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/t_suspension2.htm#Sway
MUSTANG BLOG
MY PERSONAL PROFILE & BLOG
if the stock e-brake is strong enought to lock up the back wheels would that be good to use or should u do the disk brakes no matter what?
Go ahead and try it. We still don't even have an e-brake on the car, so obviously you can drift without it. My primary reason for upgrading to rear disks was 5-lug wheel selection and improving the overall braking of the car.
You can get away with no e-brake for recreational use, but when it comes to any kind of true competition you'll have to eventually get an e-brake set up working. Either way, I dont see any easy way to make the stock system work. I researched, experimented, and tried everything with this for months. I used E-brake assemblies from Hondas, swapped cable leverage poins, everything. There is simply not enough leverage created through the stock components. The locking levers are too short, the cable is routed through several pulleys, and the handbrake is chinsy as hell. Honestly, the ammount of force needed to make a working cable e-brake vs. the low ammount of hydraulic pressure needed to lock a disc brake is quite a persuasive argument. I'm not against drum brakes by any means, infact they are usually a bit lighter than disc brake assemblies and very capable. BUT, for the simplicity of the need for a locking brake, hydraulic is the only way to go.
Just my 2 cents
kk thanx alot guys
I take it Mr. Dan you are using a hydraulic e brake?
Would you mind sharing what system or parts you are using to make this work on the mustang?
I am running Wilwood disks all around with a drum ebrake in the rear. It is not working well and am looking for other options.
Ok
I did a little research and it seems to be not so complex.
Just need this
http://cncbrakes.com/hsb.asp?grp=hsb&subgrp=all&series=412&subseries=
in line with rear brake.
Yup,
I'm running the CNC 412 A (damn I know this off memory) staging brake, that works as an inline application. If you can though, I highly suggest running a separate caliper. The inlines are mucho muy trouble. I bench bled, vaccuum bled, and pressure bled my system several, and I mean SEVERAL times. I still have issues some times, and dont feel 100% confident with it.
I've heard good things about the K-sport inline E-brake setup
http://www.ksportusa.com/asp/hydraulic_detail.asp?product_id=hh01
Also, you HAVE to run a really good brake compound- nothing that takes too long to warm up, but something that is aggressive enough to bite hard fast. I use HAWK HPS. Not cheap, but very worth it.
I've heard good things about the K-sport inline E-brake setup
http://www.ksportusa.com/asp/hydraulic_detail.asp?product_id=hh01
For my new car, I'm using a complete separate Caliper with its own hydraulic e-brake (that uses its own little master cylinder). I'm not overly thrilled with CNCs quality, but it looks like no one even comes close to matching the price, and if I had to make my own unit (using wilwood components, and another lever assembly) it'd cost twice the price. The biggest advantage of the CNC for the stand-alone (NOT THE INLINE) is the piston sizes available (up to 1"!).
So if budget is a concern (and who doesnt have a budget, especially if you have a Mustang), I'd go with the K-sport e-brake, HAWK pads, and have a buddy custom mount it.
Also try to see if you can find an inline hose that has a "residual pressure valve". I dont know where to find one, but my car has one (installed by Griggs) and its used to keep a bit of pressure on the rear brakes to keep the pads up to temps at all times.
Wilwood makes residual pressure valves. They are like $30.
For the record I've got the FRPP adjustable brake cable that I'm going to try out. It has a nut that you can just tighten up, but I haven't had the car in the air for a while to see how its going to go on.
Just a question kinda regarding this topic.
Does any one know how to adjust this on an 05 Mustang? My wife just got an 05 V6 and only uses the brake to park, but it's kinda hard for her to pull it up the whole way. Just wondering if there is a way to get it to engage sooner.
1987 Ford Mustang
Bump for answer?
You'd prob have to pull the center console apart to get to the adjuster, but I'd look under the car first.
Yeah, I was afraid of that.
1987 Ford Mustang
2005 Ford Mustang V6
To bring this back from the dead, I've since concluded a cable brake will never be at the level I need it to. It is much too awkward, heavy, and out of reach to be useful on the track.
Following up on Dan's post, there are a few designs specifically for the purpose. As mentioned there is the K-Sport unit: http://www.ksportusa.com/asp/hydraulic_detail.asp?product_id=hh01, the Seemore http://www.seemore.com.au/product.php?id=4681, and the Driftworks http://www.driftworks.com/catalog/products/driftworks-hydraulic-handbrak.... I'm kind of leaning towards the Driftworks brake, and it uses a Wilwood master cylinder which is encouraging. I would probably mount it to my side of the transmission tunnel and route the lines by drilling a hole in the side and running it in the space around my transmission.
I'm still a little confused on how this would work though. As it stands all of the brakes are innerconnected through the same lines. How would I isolate the rear brakes to work when I pull the handle without separating the systems? I could make the front brakes run off the stock setup and have the handle only operate the rear brakes, but then I don't have rear brakes when I step on the pedal. I could route the handbrake to the stock lines, but when I pull the handle it would actuate the front brakes. One response is to have another set of calipers dedicated to the handbrake, but this would take an excessive amount of fabrication. Can anyone elaborate?
Hate to say I told ya so.
Separate caliper is the Ultimate way to go. Griggs custom fabbed mine- dont think anyone makes a bracket for using two stock calipers. Tony B has a willwood kit that adds a 2nd caliper that he thinks was just some ordered kit.
I'm not sure about that driftworks kit, but the CNC one I use has an inline check valve that allows you to just "patch" it inline to the rear brakes. It only allows pressure to be moved rear-ward from the handle, locking only the rears. The brakes work regularly through the handle assembly.
The cheapest, easiest solution is the CNC inline "Staging Brake" unit. You can order them from McKinzie in so-cal. Just google them.
Also important to find out is the diameter of the piston in the e-brake assembly you chose to use. True the CNC unit is kinda cheap, but it was the only unit with a 1" piston in it. The K-sport used a really small 3/4 or 5/8". I've done tons of research and homework on all the units, and the CNC was the best option for the price and simply botling in.
I was under the impression you wouldn't recommend a CNC brake for all the hell it has given you for bleeding. The K-Sport and Driftworks designs are made with drifting as their intention, but their websites are very patchy when it comes to describing exactly how it fits on. Is an inline check valve a custom fabrication kind of thing? Do I really need the 1 inch piston in comparison to the .75 inch?
There doesn't seem to be a simple option here, and if I have to spend a little more to have a sure fire system I won't really mind. I could definately deal with the two caliper deal, but I'm worried about the custom fabrication for a bracket. Sounds really really pricey.
The custom bracket that you would need for a dual caliper setup should actually be rather simple. I know I still have not made one, but after I move some weight around and get the brake balance right, it will be time to add an e-brake. I am planning on using 4 OEM style calipers. I have read that the GM front calipers from the early s10 are a bolt in replacement for the ebrake calipers on the Mustang, so I am gonna try that out.
If you are doing an in-line solution, I'd suggest the CNC. And yes, there is a HUGE difference in pressure that a 1" piston can achieve over a 3/4. Its like a few hundreds pounds of pressure. With all of the levers, you're gonna have to creat a mount. Its really not that bad- easier than mounting seats in the car. The trick is to create a 1/8th in plate for the lever to mount to. Drill the holes, and bolt it up. Then you can weld nuts to the backside of the plate. After that, you create a "housing" that runs the perimiter of the mounting plate, and is tapered to fit up to the side of the tranny tunnel. I mounted mine in front of the seat on the tunnel, so the lever is next to the steering wheel like WRC style. This is hard for some people to get used to, but I've become very used to it now and it minimizes the time your hands are off the steering wheel. You can get this all figured out and welded up in about an hour.
If you can be patient and spend the money, a dual caliper setup is the BEST solution. Separate master/handbrake, separate lines, simple. Just give it some time so Geoff can do all the dirty work of figuring out a bolt on system that everyone else can use - ha ha
After doing some more research, I think it should be possible to use a hydraulic handbrake with a minimum of fabrication. As it stands in the car the master cylinder sends fluid to a proportioning valve which then sends it to the front brakes or the rear brakes. If you were to put in a T fitting past the proportioning valve, as close to the rear brakes as possible for the most effect, then you would be able to use the brake to lock the rear wheels and the rear wheels only. This is what a lot of the Nissan guys seem to be doing.
Geoff, how far in the future is an e-brake?
Dan, do you have any pictures of your fabrication, especially on the inside of the tranny tunnel?
I may be persuaded to the dual calipers still, but I don't paticularly want to be the pioneer of guesswork. If I get to the point in the not so distant future that I would like a working brake and the T fitting doesn't have any hidden problems I can think of now, then I'll probably just work the setup into the current hydraulic lines.
I am probably a couple of months off, hopefully by April, as there is little to no drifting going on for the next 2 months, and I have a couple other things to get working first.
Ok, finally set up a damn flickr account and took some pictures while in Cali for Christmas.
Ignore the mystery blue wire around the e-brake, this is not part of the assembly but instead a loose wire from one of the many many wires required to run the police lights.
... oh that car... SO MANY WIRES!
dan where do you have the fluid resevior at and did you just T off at the back of the car and run a line to each caliper. thanks for all the pics and advice.
This is just an inline "staging brake", so there is no additional resevoir. Yep, its just "T"d into the line running to the back brakes. Its exactly the same as the original fluid path just with the handle assembly "T"d in the middle.
I am confused?
Not hard to do. Please bear with me.
I thought the CNC unit was an inline type set up. You cut the rear brake line and each end goes up to the CNC unit.
Like this
If I understand you Dan yours is set up like this
Note the 2 "t"s and the directional valve added
Thanks
Mine is set up like the top diagram-
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