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Cooling Your 5.0 When Its Sideways
11-08-2008, 4:55 PM
I want to know what you are doing about your cooling problems.
I have a AFCO Alum radiator and Flex lite 3000cfm elect. fan, high flow water pump, high flow thermostate 165 deg, and water wetter. I still have to shut it down after a few laps. I can cool it down by doing laps. It will idle all day long with out issue.
I don't know what else to do.
When I am running I am between 3500 and 6500 rpm. .I am probably putting 400 hp to ground on motor.
Sounds pretty similar to my setup. I have the Flex-O-lite dual electric 14" fans, pulling 2500 cfm, high flow water pump, 165 t-stat, watter wetter, and I opend up the back of my Cobra R hood. I have to do the same thing, shut her down after a few runs but leave the fans on.
Here's a few tricks that might help.
-Lift the back of the hood up by using longer bolts with washers.
-Keep a pump sprayer full of cold water, and have a buddy spray the radiator and top of the motor down between runs. You see lots of these at FD events.
-Open up your hood- The more I think about it, the more I want to get drastic with mine. If you look at Rhys's GTO for example, he has ram-air scoops in front, cowl exit vents in back, and dual vents over where the headers are.
Header wrap?
-Duct air to the radiator (if you look at Chris Forsbergs Z, he uses white styrafoam with duct tape to direct air through the radiator.
- Doug Vandenbrinks STS drift mustang uses 16 fans throughout his car, which are used to push AND pull air out of the engine compartment (and about 4 more for the back to do the same for the intercooler setup). Although I think this is way excessive, its important to note that its equally important to remove hot air from the engine compartment as it is to get cold air into it.
Ill keep u posted if I can ever get mine to stay cool. Its funny cuz it'll stay at 150-160 on the dyno all day, but at the track.....I'm happy if I can keep it under 200.
Yes sounds very familiar. 200deg on track and creeps up. I have had to stop drifting and just drivei it out before.
I have a 2" cowl hood, but I was thinking of header wrap. Ceramic headers would be nice $$$.
Have you ever removed your thermostate?
I wonder how long the fan will last if i up the voltage to like 24V? Small Bat. and rewire fan leads.
I am using the fan that has the gasket around the housing and fits perfectly on the radiator. I have been considering putting the mechanical fan back on and put a metal blade on it.
I have also considered using alum. or something to dam the front end so what ever air comes in goes through the radiator.
I have also considered adding another small radiator. I have enough room in the front.
I obviously do not produce as much heat with a stock engine setup, but my car does not even get phased by a couple laps on the track. The only time it will get a bit hot is when I have the timing too advanced with bad gas in the tank. A proper electric fan with shroud, upgraded alternator, and Ford Racing radiator controlled by a DCC unit works very well. The fan I use was off a Volvo in the junkyard, I would guess it is a 16" fan.
The amount of air your fans move is very important. A crappy fan will simply not get the job done. On my 1964 Chevelle, I am running a 420 HP engine, and have substantially more fan installed. (http://www.hotrodhomepage.com/hrhp/2005/10/22/phase-1-electric-fan-insta...) I use a dual Derale setup that pulls 4000CFM of air. Even after 3-4 back to back passed down the dragstrip, the temp never moves much from the 195 thermostat and the fans only run hard for 30-40 seconds before everything is cooled back down. The Derale fans pull a serious amount of air, just don't expect to be able to run them without an upgraded alternator, as they require 50 AMPS to operate.
The second thing that leaves something to be desired is the water pump. I don't know how well suited the stock pump is to high RPM cooling. I have a feeling that you end up with cavitation, and probably a lot of parasitic drag on the engine. Last time I was at that junkyard I noticed that the 6 cylinder Mustangs run a larger pulley on the water pump. I am considering upgrading to a higher capacity pump, but slowing it down.
I use a DCC fan controller. http://www.hotrodhomepage.com/hrhp/2005/11/19/delta-current-control-modu... The guy that makes them can be hard to get a hold of, but they are the best units I have ever come across, and I run one on each of my 3 vehicles.
Summary:
1. Big Radiator
2. Quality Fan and controller (alternator as well)
3. Water Pump Upgrade
no mention of an oil cooler? not a major thing, but it does help in the cooling
Mars5L,
An oil cooler is probably a reasonable suggestion. I believe that Ford put one on the Cobra R, and I know they used one on the Explorer v8. Should be something that you can find in the Junkyard.
That all being said, I wonder what sort of temperature drops you would see by simply running a remote oil filter. Moving the filter away from the block and header into a cooler area under the hood.
This site has pictures of some of the parts.
http://www.performancepartsinc.com/engine.htm
Good sugestions
That fan is huge on the Chevelle,
As far as the controller goes, I have a master switch for the fan, on or off. I let the car warm up on the trailer and then the fan is on for the rest of the day.
This is the fan I am running
Specifications for 188 Black Magic X-Treme Mustang Fan
Air Flow 3300 cfm
Dimensions 17-1/2" x 21-1/2" x 4-3/16"
Amp Draw 18
Fits Universal
Controls None
It fits perfect. And I think it works well for most applications.
Nice write ups by the way Geoffrey.
I'm having cooling issues on track days. All I have to do is drive the car and get some air in and it will cool down but it's taking me away from runs every 20 minutes.
What I've got listed for cooling is:
Intake
Aluminum radiator
160 degree thermostat
Engine oil cooler
Transmission cooler (free for me)
Power steering cooler
Upgraded fans
Hood spacers
And I guess I'll add a high flow water pump to the list now. I also plan on getting the 00 Cobra R hood so I can cut the vents out on that if I decide.
An on and off fan switch would be nice, but I can't do wiring, so that's for the future. I'm making less than stock power (188HP and 250ft/lb, eww) so I'm hoping that some small modifications will get that under control. My transmission is really not to happy to even be driven though, and I can feel the heat creeping up the shifter in normal driving.
Yeah, my fans are pretty snugly fit with rubber all the way around, plus we've used heat ducting tape to keep all air traveling through them. I've already upgraded the water pump, but Bruce Griggs says there's only one water pump worth a shit, and its one of the edelbrock ones, I think it may be this one http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=EDL%2D883...
The only things I have left to try is the oil cooler, and relocation kit.
heat issues suck
From my personal experience, Edelbrock makes the best water pumps bar none.
Dan,
You may want to consider an electric pump, especially considering that your car does not see any street duty, I think it could be a good option. You can use a controller, similar to the one I have on my fans, to control that water pump, so that it turns only as much as needed for conditions.
It seems that with a DCC controller on the water pump and fans, you would not need a thermostat at all, and your car could cool itself down in the pits, while it's turned off because the entire cooling system would not be dependent on the engine spinning.
My car still doesn't run but i'm going to fight against heat first with bigger capacity oilpan, big oil cooler, and filter relocation kit. There will be alot of heat with the MP t-70 spinning down the side of my 5.0...maybe next summer..
Spoke to my engine builder today to figure out some cooling options. I brought up the oil cooler item. He warned me you can make it too cool. The first thing to do is to put a T at the oil presure sender and place a oil temp sensor. Optimal oil temps should be between 250 and 270 deg. I have been looking at oil coolers with a thermostat in it to keep oil warm but cool it when hot. I will get with him next week, and let everyone know what his opinion is. I also have a llittle valve lash, he said that in my car that can cause the engine to run warmer as well.
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