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5-lug Wheels
I'm planning on going to 5-lug and just curious what offset you suggest for 17x8 or 17x9?
I'm used to 240's, so I know for that car what makes for good flush look, just looking for info on good offset(s) for Foxbody to get a nice flush look. Must offsets I'm finding are in the +17-24 range, just wondering how they look, what would be better, etc.
I'm not looking for "uber-jdm, stretch your tires or you won't fit these wheels" flush. Just a nice flush look.
Plan on running MM coilovers, MM panhard, MM SN95 control arms, etc. And looking at something like 225/45 or 235/40-17, our tracks are tighter, more 2nd gear and technical, so something like a 245/45 might be harder to spin on mostly stock power (headers, 2.5" exhaust, no cats).
I know how 225 and 235's look on both 8" and 9" rims, so no need to bring that into play.
I know you're running stock rims, but w/ spacers, and as I'm not a big fan of spacers, looking for a better idea of a proper offset for our Foxbody Mustangs.
Thanks,
Jay
Remember, since the rear of the Mustang is does not camber, you will not be able to "tuck" the rear tires nearly as much as you would on a 240 and still maintain proper wheel travel. Also the wheel arches on a Mustang a higher then those on a 240, so in order to achieve the same amount of tuck on a 'stang, you will need to either run a larger wheel/tire combo, or go lower. I do not have the car as low as it will go, because the front suspension geometry gets worse if I go any lower. Of course with a MM K-Member I could go down another 2 inches.
The amount of offset that you want to run is going to depend on a couple of things.
#1 - The type of spindles (SN95 94-95 vs SN95 96+) The later spindles push the wheel out further
#2 - The year of your car. Different years have slightly different fenders, and GTs have more space then LXs.
All that being said, I will share my setup:
In these pics I am running a 245/45R17 tire on a 17" wheel. The offset is +30mm with a 5mm spacer. If you wanted to get the same thing with just the wheel, look for a 25mm offset.
I want to try out a 235/40R18 tire on an 18" wheel with +22mm offset. I think it will be about perfect. In the past I ran a 235/40R17 and it worked well.
If you are going to move to a 9" wheel, you will want to have a lower offset. Since 1 inch ~ 25.4 mm, you will want a wheel with ~ 12.7 mm more offset (30 - 13 = 17mm) to run a 9" wheel.
The lower the better- anything more than 24mm is no good, and most Mustang wheels are 24-30mm. I'd look for atleast 20mm, and if you can go lower, even better. The rears have tons of room- I ran 275s on 18" cobra R wheels (9.5) with 22mm offset and had atleast 1.5" inches of room. If you wanted FLUSH flush wheels, you'll probably be in the 10-15mm offset range- but good luck finding affordable ones. Hence the spacers. I'm not a big fan of spacers either, but H&R hub-centric ones are very high quality pieces that just about every pro drift car uses.
Exactly what Dan said. Low offset wheels are not commonly found on modern production cars and will cost you some sweet coin. Many of the wheels that I see sported on flush 240s cost more then my car did. LOL.
I threw a set of Ray's on the car at the last Just Drift and they fit perfect, then I found out how much a set or Ray's cost. Ouch!
A set of these would cost me over $2000. Hard to swallow when my car was $2000.
http://www.upgrademotoring.com/wheels/gramlts57spro.htm
Ok, so w/ a 17x9, looking for something in the 10-20 range? Also, Geoffrey you keep listing as -30mm, -22mm, etc, are you actually referring to a Negative offset of 30, or positive?? Because -30 offset on a 8" is huge difference and is gonna stick out BIG TIME.
Pricing isn't too bad, couple minutes search, here's just a few....
5Zigen FN01RC 17x9 +15 $196-231 (depending on color/finish) each, shipped (DiscountTireDirect)
HotWheels Sixty-Eight 17x9 +24 $154-197 (Polish/Chrome) each, shipped (DiscountTireDirect)
MB Wheels Weapon 17x9 +17 $131 each, shipped (DTD)
MB Wheels Competition 17x9 +17 $144 each, shipped (DTD)
~$524-924 set of 4 shipped isn't bad for a 17x9, especially since more Mustang 17x9's are pretty heavy, average 24-25lbs based on what I've seen/found, and something like a 17x9 MB Wheel or FN01RC is like 18-19lbs. Less than a grand to just over $500 for four 17x9's is a good deal to me for a flush rim, next to buying a set of $500-600 Mustang 17x9's and adding another $100-300 for a good set of spacers. Yeah you can do spacers for all 4 corners at $50, but I wouldn't trust them, that's why I said "good set of spacers." Been to enough drift events to see what cheap spacers/studs will do mid-track, not pretty.
Thanks again guys.
Also, once doing the swap, (looking at the set-up off of LateModelRestoration) what rotors and drums do you order for replacements? Just ones for a SN95? Do SN95's have drum rear?
Later,
Jay
Yeah, I just realized that. I am talking about the hoop of the wheel being offset 30mm towards the car.
SN95 cars have rear disks, but it is possible to do a 5-lug rear drum conversion.
https://www.rsracing.com/tech-wheel.html
Am I going to be feeling any difference by adding wheel spacers? I hear it's an improvement because the wider wheelbase is easier to slide. I'm only really concerned with the rear wheels on my SN-95, because they're pretty well sucked in way past sitting flush with the fender, at least an inch. I've got different sets of rims that I use depending on whats mounted, so I can't really give any consistent offset to aim for.
Adding extra wheel spacers up front will increase your scrub radius. Whether or not you like the feel of a car with a larger scrub radius is really up to you.
If you do use a wheel spacer, make sure it is hub centric. I know that Eibach makes some very nice ones for Mustangs. After touring their manufacturing facility last year, that's certainly what I would use.
Geoffrey, is your Mustang rear drum w/ 5-lug?
How much angle difference would I be looking at for running a 17x9 up front Vs. 17x8 up front?
Later,
Jay
It will depend a lot on the offset, but if you don't compensate for the extra width with a lower offset you could be looking at 10-15 degrees less angle. This is a big deal because Mustangs are seriously lacking in the angle department.
(Oh I forgot to mention it's for a '88 GT)
Ok, how about a 17x8 +22 Vs. 17x9 +17?
Thanks again.
you should be fine.
So a 17x9 +17 all around won't negatively affect steering angle up front?
It shouldn't, at least as long as you get the SN95 control arms mentioned in the first post. You will need to massage the fenders a bit, but Mustang fenders are a dime a dozen in the junkyard, so don't sweat it.
And I need the standard offset MM SN95 w/ +96 Inner/Outer Tie rods, correct?
That's exactly the setup I am running on my car. The trickiest part of the install was getting the inner tie-rods off the rack. I took the rack out of the car and did it on the workbench.
Since I'm probably doing the LSD and 5-lug swap at the same time. Just curious as to your opinion on 28-spline Vs. 31-spline set-up? All I really know so far is that stock is 28-spline, and 31-spline is stronger.
Thanks,
Jay
We are running 28 spline. I replaced the original axles a while back. So far so good.
If the car is only gonna be used for drift and track events (road race, time attack, lapping days, autoX), and I won't be going past 302 engine or boost, just bolt-ons, heads, cam, intake manifold, etc, you don't see a need to go to 31-spline?
I do not plan on changing to 31 spline. I will stick with 28. Also to answer your earlier question, I have disk brakes on the rear of the car. The entire rearend came from a '94 GT.
Gotcha, thanks tons Geoffrey, hopefully I haven't been too annoying w/ all these damn questions. Not much info out there for some of these things as most foxbody stangs are set-up for street/strip or just strip.
With MM SN95 control arms, MM coilover kit (450 front/250 rear, camber/caster plates, etc), MM panhard bar for suspension (probably will try and sourse myself a 4-cyl front sway bar). And 17x9 +17 all around and most likely 235/40-17 Maxxis MA-Z1 if I continue w/ the sponcership I have w/ them or Federal 595ss as I had good luck w/ them in the past yrs. Ok, so what would you suggest for alignment settings? This is a weekend/track car only, will barely see much street time, not a daily.
Thanks again.
Later,
Jay
I am still playing around with alignment, but right now I have the car at 2.5 degrees negative camber, 3 degrees of negative caster, and zero toe. (http://www.drift50.com/blog/geoffrey-chandler/drift-mustang-alignment-ne...)
This site has a lot of answers on it, you can use the search bar at the top to find out a lot of good information. If you want to know how my car is setup, Read the Mechanic's Blog. I typically update it when I make changes to the car.
Start at page 11 (http://www.drift50.com/blog/geoffrey-chandler?page=11) and work you way forward to see what has been done to our car over the past year or so, then watch all the videos to see how it looks over the same period. That's the nice thing about all the video we have on the site, you can see for yourself how our car is working each time to the track.
Not all the updates are terribly explicit and could certainly use more detail, but that's why we have the comment section and the forums. It's certainly ok to make a comment on older articles and forum posts, there is no penalty here for bringing new life to an old discussion.
I've gone through just about every blog entry and video you've goes had up. Was looking at running your alignment set-up, but wasn't sure if you had made an progress on the "new" alignment specs, which you posted not to long after you post that reply. I've been following your progress over the year plus, love the concept, love the foxbody Stangs and now it's time for me to start work on my very own drift Stang.
Also, looking through MM's site, just curious, could these be used in replace of the stock outer tie rod ends, while still using the stock inners on the rack? Have the need rods for SN95 arms, and improved control over bumpsteer; two birds, one stone.
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/index.html?http&&&www.maximummotorspor...
Just guessing, get these instead of +96 inner/outer tie rods and spend about the same amount or a little more and get your control arms to work and "eliminate" dumpsteer.
Later,
Jay
The MM Adjustable Tie Rod End Kit should work fine as a replacement for the SN95 units. Of course you will want to make certain by talking to MM.
As for the new alignment settings, the next time out at the track will be at the end of November, I will certainly post up how the alignment works out.
"NOTE: The MMTR-7 Adjustable Tie-Rod End kit is intended only for one very specific installation situation: When SN95 length front control arms have been installed on a Fox chassis Mustang, while retaining a Fox chassis steering rack. The longer SN95 front control arms require a matching increase in the length of the tie-rod. Instead of replacing the Fox tie-rod with a longer SN95 tie-rod, the longer aluminum sleeves in the MMTR-7 kit increase the effective length of the Fox chassis tie-rod."
"The 1994-2004 Mustang control arms (both zero-offset and forward-offset) can be installed on the 1979-93 Mustangs. The SN95 Mustang arms will increase track width by approximately 3/4" per side, which increases front grip for improved cornering ability. Significant fender modifications are required. The longer SN95 Mustang front control arms will require that the steering rack's tie-rods be extended to reach the spindle. See here for MM's Adjustable Outer Tie-Rod End (Bumpsteer) Kit, MMTR-6."
After some looking around their "Tech Tips" and the "Installation Instructions" areas I found these, so these should work instead of getting OEM style +96 tie rods (inner/outer), just replacing the tie rod end w/ their bumpstop kit/adjustable tie rod ends should do the trick, but I will contact them just to be sure.
Let us know how the alignment works out and good luck to you and David. I actually have my last drift event today, no competition, just a regular Drift Day. But it will probably be my last event drifting the S13. But it will give me time to sell off parts, save money and start working on the Mustang more.
I did get the engine mounts in and the headers went in at the same time, glad I picked up the complete kit (engine/tranny mounts) because the passenger side mount was so dead it started to wear done on the passenger side of the transmission mount, which also caused the improper engine alignment for the header install. Off-road H-pipe is on, now time to start welding up the side exhaust. I'm very excited to get this project going, been running my 240 for over 4yrs in autoX, drift, etc, time to start a new project.
Later,
Jay
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